Reason 4 - Absence of the Church in Revelation Chapters 4 - 19

A lack of seeing the word Church 

in Revelation chapters 4 - 19 

is often used as a "proof" 

that the believers were all 

Raptured off the planet,

before the start 

of the Great Tribulation.

Let's take a closer look at this theory,

and see if it makes sense.

Item # 4 

in a list of 7 Reasons 

for a Pre-Trib Rapture is:

4. *Absence of the Church in 

Revelation Chapters 4-19:*
- **Revelation 4:1**: 

John is called up to heaven 

before the judgments unfold. 

"Come up here".
- **Revelation 13:7**:

 The saints mentioned here 

are Tribulation saints, 

not the Church.
- **Revelation 19:11-14**:

 The Church returns with Christ, 

suggesting it was previously 

taken to heaven.
The absence of explicit references 

to the Church 

during the Tribulation judgments 

suggests 

it is not present on earth 

during this period. 

Thanks to David Floyd 

for this 4th of his 7 Reasons 

he posted in defense

of the Pre-Trib Rapture theory. 

This is actually 5 related points.

Let's look at the First Point given:

Absence of the Church in 

Revelation Chapters 4-19

This is not a very strong argument 

in defence of a Rapture of Believers 

before the time of the Great Tribulation.

It is based primarily on 

a misunderstanding 

of the term "Church".

Let's take a closer look 

at what Revelation is telling us.

First, let's start with 

how the word "Church" is used 

in the first 3 chapters of Revelation.

It is used to tell us 

that John has been instructed

to share this Revelation

with 7 of the churches in Asia.

 

Revelation chapter 1 verse 4:

 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

And then in verse 11:

saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, 

the First and the Last," 

and, "What you see, 

write in a book 

and send it to the seven churches 

which are in Asia: 

And each church is 

referenced by its location,

and given a specific message.

The purpose of sharing this Revelation 

is referenced in verse 19 of the first chapter,

Write the things which you have seen, 

and the things which are, 

and the things which 

will take place after this.

And we also see a specific mention near the end of the Revelation,

Chapter 22 verse 16,

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify 

to you these things in the churches.

This is how the word "church" or "assembly" 

is used in the book of Revelation.

Believers are referenced in several other ways.

Taking a closer look at this point

should clear up this misconception.

The primary term for believers in the New Testament 

is the word "saints".

It is how Paul addresses the believers in his letters 

to various churches.

For example:

Romans chapter 1 verse 7

To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, 

called to be saints:

I Corinthians chapter 1 verse 2

To the church of God 

which is at Corinth, 

to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, 

called to be saints

I Corinthians chapter 14 verse 33

For God is not the author of confusion 

but of peace, as in 

all the churches 

of the saints.

If you do a word search, 

you'll find the believers in each church 

referenced as "saints".

And we find the term "saints" 

used over a dozen times

in chapters 4 - 19 of Revelation.

 

Looking at Chapter 13 verses 7 - 10

this passage puts the saints 

in the time of the Great Tribulation

were it says,

It was granted to him 

to make war with the saints 

and to overcome them. 

And authority was given him 

over every tribe, tongue, 

and nation.

All who dwell on the earth 

will worship him, 

whose names have not been written 

in the Book of Life of the Lamb 

slain from the foundation of the world.

If anyone has an ear, 

let him hear.

He who leads into captivity 

shall go into captivity; 

he who kills with the sword 

must be killed with the sword. 

Here is the patience 

and the faith of the saints.

* KNOWING what is going to happen 

and what we should expect 

as believers during this time period

is key to having faith

and patience ( or steadfastness )

as we face persecution

and possible death at the hands of the antichrist.

Knowing that death 

is not the end for the believer.

It is the beginning of a new life.

We are promised a resurrection,

a new body,

and that we always be 

with our Lord Jesus Christ.

So, there is very little that Satan and his cohorts 

can actually do to us.

Scripture is full of promises in this regard.

*

The Second point

- **Revelation 4:1**: 

John is called up to heaven 

before the judgments unfold. 

"Come up here".

To say that John being told to 

"come up here" 

in Revelation chapter 4 verse 1,

represents a pre-trib Rapture of believers

is reading into the actual text,

something that is not supported by context,

or by any other scripture passage.

Let's read the verse:

After these things I looked, 

and behold, 

a door standing open in heaven. 

And the first voice which I heard 

was like a trumpet speaking with me, 

saying, "Come up here, 

and I will show you things 

which must take place after this.

John is shown many things in heaven, 

and shares many details of what the future holds,

but neither he or the church 

is identified as being Raptured at this time.

John is also told to "come" 2 other times 

in Revelation to be shown more things.

Chapter 17 and verse 1,

"Come, I will show you the judgment 

of the great harlot 

who sits on many waters,

and

Chapter 21 and verse 9,

"Come, I will show you the bride, 

the Lamb's wife."

And we see the two witnesses 

being told to Come Up Here,

in Revelation chapter 11 verse 12.

But this applies to them 

being resurrected after 3 1/2 days,

and only those two

(  no others ) 

being taken up into heaven.

It says,

And they heard a loud voice from heaven 

saying to them,

 "Come up here." 

And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, 

and their enemies saw them.

Moving on to Point # 3

- **Revelation 13:7**:

 The saints mentioned here are Tribulation saints, 

not the Church.

This is the first time I've come across this interpretation.

My response is simply,

The scriptures nowhere state 

that there are different types of saints.

Let's read the verse

Revelation chapter 13 verse 7,

says,

It was granted to him 

to make war with the saints 

and to overcome them. 

And authority was given him 

over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

I don't see any distinction between 

a first century "saint",

or any believer who lives today,

or in the future.

This passage in 

Ephesians chapter 2 verses 19-22

is one example of our unity,

Now, therefore, 

you are no longer strangers and foreigners, 

but fellow citizens with the saints 

and members of the household of God, 

having been built on the foundation 

of the apostles and prophets, 

Jesus Christ Himself 

being the chief cornerstone, 

in whom the whole building, 

being fitted together, 

grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 

in whom you also are being built together 

for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Next we have

The 4th Point presented is:

- **Revelation 19:11-14**:

 The Church returns with Christ, 

suggesting it was previously taken to heaven.

A closer look at this passage reveals

that neither the word church 

or even saints is referenced.

And the armies of God 

are generally referenced as His angels.

see examples in:

Joshua chapter 5 verse 13-15 

and Verse 14 reads,

as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.

and 

2 Kings chapter 6 verses 16 and 17

So he answered, “Do not fear, 

for those who are with us are more 

than those who are with them.” 

And Elisha prayed, and said, 

“Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” 

Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, 

and he saw. 

And behold, the mountain was full of horses 

and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

and 

Revelation chapter 12 verses 7 and 8

And war broke out in heaven: 

Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; 

and the dragon and his angels fought,

but they did not prevail, 

nor was a place found for them in heaven 

any longer.

The Lord is returning with His angels,

2 Thessalonians chapter 1 verses 7 and 8 

comes to mind,

which says;

 and to give you who are troubled 

rest with us 

when the Lord Jesus 

is revealed from heaven 

with His mighty angels,

in flaming fire 

taking vengeance 

on those who do not know God, 

and on those who do not obey the gospel 

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The fact they are referenced as clothed 

in fine linens, white and clean,

does not definitely 

identify them as the Church.

Also, I see no reference to believers riding white horses

elsewhere in scripture.

Let's go ahead and read the passage 

in question from 

Revelation chapter 19 verses 11 - 14,

Now I saw heaven opened, 

and behold, a white horse. 

And He who sat on him 

was called Faithful and True, 

and in righteousness 

He judges and makes war. 

His eyes were like a flame of fire, 

and on His head were many crowns. 

He had a name written 

that no one knew except Himself. 

He was clothed with a robe 

dipped in blood, 

and His name is called 

The Word of God. 

And the armies in heaven, 

clothed in fine linen, white and clean, 

followed Him on white horses.

You will find many who do believe the armies 

could be referencing the Church.

However,

Even if that was a correct understanding 

of who the "armies in heaven" are,

This would not prove an earlier Rapture.

A post-trib Rapture 

at the end of the Tribulation period fits just as well.

As we do see the Resurrection of those asleep,

and our transformation 

to be included in the return of Christ.

As we are told in I Thessalonians chapter 4

we are to meet Him in the air,

when He comes in the clouds.

In I Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 15-17

we read;

For this we say to you 

by the word of the Lord, 

that we who are alive and remain 

until the coming of the Lord 

will by no means precede 

those who are asleep.

For the Lord Himself 

will descend from heaven 

with a shout, 

with the voice of an archangel, 

and with the trumpet of God. 

And the dead in Christ will rise first. 

Then we who are alive 

and remain 

shall be caught up together with them 

in the clouds 

to meet the Lord in the air. 

And thus we shall always be 

with the Lord.

So, this would imply we could be part of the group 

referenced in Revelation 19:14

But it does not require 

that the Rapture occurred 

before the Tribulation Period.

The final and 5th Point

of this 4th Reason statement is:

The absence of explicit references to the Church 

during the Tribulation judgments 

suggests it is not present on earth 

during this period. 

I would simply repeat, 

that the saints are the Church,

and absence of the word "church" does not prove,

or even suggest to me,

that the body of believers 

that is called the Church

was removed before the events 

described in the book of Revelation.

The purpose of the book of Revelation 

was so we could have an idea of what to expect.

I'd give two references for you to consider.

Revelation chapter 1 verse 19

we read

Write the things which you have seen, 

and the things which are, 

and the things which will 

take place after this.

And near the end of the book,

We see this message is for all the churches.

In Revelation chapter 22 verse 16,

we read

I, Jesus, have sent My angel 

to testify to you these things 

in the churches. 

I am the Root and the Offspring of David, 

the Bright and Morning Star."

That wraps up today's look at Reason 4.

The conclusion being:

At no point in the book of Revelation,

Do we see a removal of the church 

or saints from the planet before the return of Christ,

at the end of the Great Tribulation.

However,

We are promised a future "rest" from 

"persecutions and tribulations", 

"when the Lord Jesus is revealed 

from heaven with His mighty angels"

Reference the full passage in

2 Thessalonians chapter 1 verses 4-10 

I will provide LINKS to additional Blog Posts 

and Videos on this subject in the description below.

And I will combine this 4th Reason discussion

into a playlist covering all 7 parts 

of this series on the 

7 common Reasons 

that are taught to support 

a Pre-trib Rapture.

Thanks for making it to the end of this video,

please leave your comments below,

and click on the Like button,

to help others find this information.

Maranatha.

Youtube version =

https://youtu.be/8RWdRrr21fg

--

Saved by Grace,

Andrew Cross

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 

And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, 

but exhorting one another, 

and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 10:23-25

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