Does Jesus come IN a Cloud?
ON a Cloud?
Or simply WITH the Clouds?
And more importantly,
Are the scriptures telling us about 2 different Comings of Christ,
or
do they all refer to the same
end time event?
end time event?
*** Youtube Video Version = https://youtu.be/NDS7YDfPTPo
It has been suggested
( taught ) by some,
that the term "IN" a cloud found
in Luke chapter 21 verses 27 and 28
is the Rapture of the Saints before the Great Tribulation.
because it says "IN" and the Cloud is singular.
And that other passages
such as Revelation chapter 1 verse 7,
where it says
"coming with the clouds"
means a different event
at the end of the Tribulation period.
I would only agree that
the passage in Revelation chapter 1,
is happening at the end of the tribulation period,
as it states
every eye will see Him.
But not that Luke chapter 21
is referencing a different event.
The physical return to earth of our Lord
mentioned in Revelation chapter 1,
is revealed to occur on the Mount of Olivet
as referenced in
Acts chapter 1 verses 9 -11,
where the ascension
is presented as a singular cloud
taking Jesus up into heaven.
And the angels clearly say
we should expect to see Him
return to the same spot
and coming down in a cloud
( the same way He left ).
Looking closer at
Luke chapter 21 verses 27 and 28,
we can see Jesus is describing
the same end time events
as we find in Matthew
chapter 24 verses 29 through 31.
In chapter 24 and verse 30
it says He returns
"on the clouds",
and
in Mark chapter 13 verse 26
we see this same return
"in the clouds".
So, there is no reason to believe
the passage in Luke is talking about
a DIFFERENT event.
Shortly I will quote these and other scriptures more fully.
There are no scriptures that say Jesus Christ is returning TWICE.
I was taught that
but I don't see it in the scriptures.
No where does it say He returns,
Once BEFORE the Great Tribulation starts,
and
then AGAIN at the end.
This would be a GAP of 3 1/2
or 7 years later
depending on your understanding
of the prophecy's in Daniel and Revelation.
Both mention the length of time involved,
as 1260 days
or 42 months for the reign of the beast,
and
the preaching of the 2 witnesses.
Also we see reference to
a time,
times,
and 1/2 time,
commonly understood to mean 3 1/2 years.
And a slightly longer
"total" time of 1290 days
to the "end of these things"
spoken of in Daniel 12.
The extra 30 days could be the amount of time
for the 7 bowls of God's wrath
in Revelation chapters 15 and 16.
The beast's "reign" would have ended
by the time those bowls are poured out.
I'm looking forward to
day 1,335,
as mentioned in Daniel 12:12.
*
Okay, if I have not lost you yet,
and you have some more time,
Let's read through "clouds" passages
that reference the return of Christ
( the Son of Man ).
Starting with Daniel chapter 7 and verses 13 and 14,
we read
I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations,
That all peoples, nations,
and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
And now look at
Matthew chapter 24 verses 29 - 31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man
will appear in heaven,
and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man
coming on the clouds of heaven
with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels
with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they will gather together His elect
from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other.
And Mark chapter 13
and verses 24 through 26
say pretty just the same thing,
"But in those days,
after that tribulation,
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars of heaven will fall,
and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
26 Then they will see the Son of Man
coming in the clouds
with great power and glory.
NOW let's look at the gospel of LUKE,
and you tell me
if you think he is talking about the same event,
or a "different" ( secret )
return / rapture?
Chapter 21 verses 25 - 28
we read
And there will be signs in the sun,
in the moon,
and in the stars;
and on the earth distress of nations,
with perplexity,
the sea and the waves roaring;
26 men's hearts failing them from fear
and the expectation
of those things which are coming on the earth,
for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
27 Then
they will see the Son of Man
coming in a cloud
with power and great glory.
28 Now when these things begin to happen,
look up and lift up your heads,
because your redemption draws near."
* I honestly see the 3 different gospels talking
about the ONE and ONLY - SAME
end time event.
The visible return of Jesus
at the end of the Great Tribulation.
Now let's look closer at what Luke shares
in Acts chapter 1 and verses 9 through 11
Now when He had spoken these things,
while they watched,
He was taken up,
and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up,
behold,
two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said,
"Men of Galilee,
why do you stand gazing up into heaven?
This same Jesus,
who was taken up from you
into heaven,
will so come in like manner
as you saw Him go into heaven."
** Pretty plain.
A cloud received Him out of their sight.
and He is will come back in like manner.
And it should be noted this occurs at the mount of olives.
Verse 12 says,
Then they returned to Jerusalem
from the mount called Olivet,
which is near Jerusalem,
a Sabbath day's journey.
The exact spot prophesied
in Zechariah chapter 14 and verse 3 and 4
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand
on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives
shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Getting back to the CLOUDS,
We can now look at the most famous "Rapture" passage.
In 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 and verse 16 through 18
we read
For the Lord Himself
will descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of an archangel,
and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
There is no reason to believe
this descending by the Lord
in the clouds
is a different event than the one referenced
in Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts
and Revelation chapter 1.
It's time to look at
Revelation chapter 1 and verse 7,
Behold, He is coming with clouds,
and every eye will see Him,
even they who pierced Him.
And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him.
Even so, Amen.
Here John seems to be referencing
Zechariah chapter 12 and verse 10
we read
And I will pour on the house of David
and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem
the Spirit of grace and supplication;
then they will look on Me
whom they pierced.
Yes,
they will mourn for Him
as one mourns for his only son,
and grieve for Him
as one grieves for a firstborn.
So,
we see the return of Christ from heaven,
to involve a cloud.
And the cloud is likely among many clouds,
besides the one that He is
"In"
or "On".
I am saying that I believe
that the slight different in phrasing
of this return mentioned in all these passages,
as
In,
On,
or
With,
does not require that we see them as 2 or 3 different events.
The CONTEXT of each passage makes it clear,
Jesus is Coming Back.
And He is coming from above
( where the Clouds are ).
With nothing in scripture to separate them
into two different time periods,
or
two different events.
So, if you are looking for "proof"
of a pre-tribulation rapture event,
you can not,
should not
use the "Cloud" verses as your evidence.
One last "Cloud" passage we need to look at
references the 2 witnesses killed
in Revelation chapter 11 verse 7.
As some would say
or
think that their being received into the cloud
is a reference to the Rapture.
Let's read the passage:
Chapter 11 verses 10 - 14
Now after the three-and-a-half days
the breath of life from God entered them,
and they stood on their feet,
and great fear fell on those who saw them.
12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them,
"Come up here."
And they ascended to heaven in a cloud,
and their enemies saw them.
13 In the same hour
there was a great earthquake,
and a tenth of the city fell.
In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed,
and the rest were afraid
and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past.
Behold,
the third woe is coming quickly.
*
Besides no reference to anyone else ascending,
nor anyone seeing Christ.
We see the 3rd and final WOE
( which is the 7th Trumpet )
is yet to come.
I would not say it's impossible
that the gathering of the believers
happens at this time,
but I do not see any clear reference
in the scripture.
I have people who have tried to
"read things into" 1st Thessalonians 4:16,
By saying the "shout" = "come up here",
but that is not actually in the passage.
The "shout" is never "defined"
or put into words for us
to know what we are likely to hear.
The Last Trumpet occurs after -
not the same time as the ascension
of the two witnesses.
And the "dead in Christ" refers to all believers
who have "fallen asleep in the Lord",
and not just these two matryed witnesses.
We should also consider that
God has called up other saints to heaven in the past.
Enoch and Elijah both seem to have ascended
before physically dying.
And that is why many will propose
that they are the two witnesses that God
sends back to earth during the Great Tribulation.
Maybe yes,
maybe no.
We have no clear scriptures to support that theory.
But I can't argue against it either.
Let's just wait and see.
For those reasons,
I am not inclined to believe
the calling up of the two witnesses,
and the rapture are connected.
That should cover all the relavent scriptures
that reference the Lord's Return and His coming
in,
with,
and
on
a cloud ( or clouds ).
I would like to close with Paul's encourage to us,
as children of the day.
1st Thessalonians Chapter 5 verses 1 - 11
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren,
you have no need that I should write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly
that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober ( alert ).
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober ( alert ),
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another,
just as you also are doing.
AMEN!
Saved by Grace,
Andrew Cross
"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some,
but exhorting one another,
and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
Hebrews 10:23-25
