If No Pre-Trib Rapture - What Protects the Saints During the Great Tribulation

If there is no pre-tribulation Rapture of the Church,

What protects us from the Wrath of God mentioned in Revelation?

If you are wondering 

or worried about actually living through the Tribulation period,

you are not alone.

Since the majority of believers have been led to believe they get a free pass 

( A Secret Raptured Before the Tribulation Period ).

I would simply point out that God has PROMISED 

to keep us from experiencing His wrath,

AND

has given us many examples of His ability to protect his chosen

while also destroying the unrighteous.

You may have read how Lot was escorted out

 of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis chapter 19,

before the Lord rained down destructive and deadly 

fire & brimstone upon the ungodly living there.

And everyone has heard how Noah 

and his family were protected in the Ark.

While the flood waters covered the earth 

destroying all men and animals that had the breath of life. 

Reference Genesis chapters 6 through 9.

But have you considered how God protected the children of Israel 

when the plagues occurred in the land of Egypt.

There were 10 plagues, 

and the last 7 plagues affected 

ONLY the Egyptians, 

and not the Israelites.

Another example 

that many have never heard of before,

or did not take notice when reading through the passage,

is the selective protection referenced

in Ezekiel chapter 9 verses 4 - 6,

We Read:

4 and the Lord said to him, 

“Go through the midst of the city, 

through the midst of Jerusalem, 

and put a mark on the foreheads of the men 

who sigh and cry over all the abominations 

that are done within it.”

5 To the others He said in my hearing, 

“Go after him 

through the city and kill; 

do not let your eye spare, 

nor have any pity. 

6 Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; 

but do not come near anyone 

on whom is the mark;

 

We see here that the LORD clearly protects His own.

Those being MARKED 

are then SPARED from death

as the Lord directed His angels 

to execute His Judgement upon those in Jerusalem.

In Revelation we have two example of God protecting His own.

We have the two witness that will be active until their task is done.

Revelation chapter 11 verses 2 through 12,

but

let us read verse 3 and 7

Verse 3 says,

And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, 

and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, 

clothed in sackcloth.”

and in verse 7
When they have finished their testimony, 

the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, 

and overcome them 

and kill them.

And I would be amiss, 

if I failed to mention the sealing of the 144,000

in Revelation chapter 7 verses 2 through 8

Reading in verses 3 and 4,

saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees 

until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God 

on their foreheads.”

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 

one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed 

from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Who exactly these 144,000 are 

is highly debated, 

and not part of this discussion ( today ).

The point is, 

while we may experience many hardships, 

persecution for our faith in Jesus,

and in some cases martyrdom,

we will not experience the bowls of wrath, 

as they are specifically directed to the ungodly 

and those who have received the mark of the beast.

Note: Revelation chapter 16, 

and especially verse 2, 

when the first bowl is poured out 

It clearly states:

"upon the men who had the mark of the beast 

and those who worshiped his image."

I'll close with this promise 

from 1 Thessalonians chapter 5, verses 9 and 10,

For God did not appoint us to wrath, 

but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 

who died for us, 

that whether we wake or sleep, 

we should live together with Him.

AMEN.

* This can be watched on Youtube = https://youtu.be/Oc-AcRYpC5g

For more on this topic,

Read = 

Is a Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church required to save believers from Wrath?

https://cloudsonthehorizon.blogspot.com/2023/05/is-pre-trib-rature-of-church-required.html

Or 

Watch on Youtube = https://youtu.be/lt9BM1R9ad4

--

Saved by Grace,

Andrew Cross

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 

And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, 

but exhorting one another, 

and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 10:23-25

YouTube channel = We belong to the Day

What about Working Out Your Salvation? I thought Salvation was Not by Works

What about Working Out Your Salvation? 

I thought Salvation was Not by Works

*

There are many clear passages in the Bible

that tell us that salvation is 

a gift we don't work for 

or earn.

And since we could never "deserve" eternal life,

it is obtainable only by faith 

apart from our efforts 

or worthiness.

Let's look at a few scripture passages on the subject,

My favorite is 

Ephesians chapter 2 verses 8 and 9

For you are saved by grace through faith, 

and this is not from yourselves;

it is God's gift— 

not from works, 

so that no one can boast

And looking at 

Romans chapter 4 verses 4 and 5 

we read

Now to the one who works, 

pay is not considered as a gift, 

but as something owed. 

But to the one who does not work, 

but believes on Him 

who declares the ungodly to be righteous,

his faith is credited for righteousness.

AND in Romans 11:6

we read,

Now if by grace, 

then it is not by works; 

otherwise grace ceases to be grace.

So, the question some would ask is,

What about "working out your salvation"

as referenced in Philippians 2:12

Let's take a close look at both the word "salvation",

and how Paul is using it 

when writing to the Philippians.

Paul uses this word 3 different times in this letter.

Chapter 1 verse 19 

 for I know that through your prayers 

and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ 

this will turn out for my deliverance,

The Greek word often translated as salvation is 

"soteria"

But in this passage,

it is translated deliverance

in all modern translations.

The Greek word 

soteria can mean 

deliverance, 

preservation, 

safety, 

or 

salvation

You need to look at the context.

Everytime the word "salvation" or "saved" is used,

it is not always referring to our eternal salvation.

A clear example can be found in Acts 27:31,

Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers,

 "Unless these men stay in the ship, 

you cannot be saved."

Next time Paul uses this word in Philippians is 

in Chapter 1 and verse 28

and not frightened in anything by your opponents. 

This is a clear sign to them of their destruction, 

but of your salvation, and that from God.

And latestly in

Chapter 2 verse 12 

Therefore, my beloved, 

as you have always obeyed, 

so now, 

not only as in my presence 

but much more in my absence, 

work out your own salvation 

with fear and trembling, 

So, one must ask the question .. 

What is Paul talking about, 

since he is writing to the Philippian church members 

Who are already saved believers?

In this context

I don't believe Paul is not talking about eternal salvation.

That matter is SETTLED the moment you trust in Jesus Christ as your savior.

Understanding that His full payment for sin on the cross, 

and His bodily resurrection,

is the only basis for you receiving everlasting life 

( and being saved from the wages of sin - which is death ).

I just need to quote Romans 6:23 here,

For the wages of sin is death, 

but the free gift of God is eternal life 

in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Again it's a GIFT - 

not something you work for or earn 

or in any way deserve.

That is why eternal life is by grace.

God's undeserved mercy.

And once you have it, 

it can not be lost.

Because the "keeping" is not based on your works, 

but the power of God.

Consider these clear passage on the subject:

John 5:24

I assure you: 

Anyone who hears My word 

and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life 

and will not come under judgment 

but has passed from death to life.

John 6:37

Everyone the Father gives Me

 will come to Me, 

and the one who comes to Me 

I will never cast out.

I Peter 1:5

You are being protected by God's power through faith

for a salvation that is ready to be revealed 

in the last time.

2 Timothy 2:13

if we are faithless, He remains faithful,
for He cannot deny Himself.

Therefore

Paul is more likely referring to the "deliverance" from the power of sin

in a believer's life.

And that is how the next verse 

( 2:13 ) 

makes the most sense,

It says,

For it is God who is working in you, 

enabling you both to desire

and to work out His good purpose.

God is working in them through the Holy Spirit.

They are already born again children of God by faith.

And the Holy Spirit is our seal and down payment.

See Ephesians chapter 1 verse 13 and into 14,

When you heard the message of truth, 

the gospel of your salvation, 

and when you believed in Him, 

you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. 

He is the down payment of our inheritance

I hope you can see how clear and simple 

the Gospel message is from these verses.

Our salvation is based solely on the power of God,

Both the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Once you are born again, 

you have the opportunity to have a close and abiding relationship 

with your heavenly Father.

He promises to bless and reward those 

who choose to also serve Him.

So, you work 

( with empowerment from God ) 

for deliverance from the power of sin in your life, 

as you seek to grow closer 

to the one who Loves you the Most,

your creator.

AMEN!

*

All scripture quotes from 

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Video Version can be viewed here =

https://youtu.be/BwzlmPzfxk4

--

Saved by Grace,

Andrew Cross

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 

And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, 

but exhorting one another, 

and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 10:23-25

YouTube channel = We belong to the Day

The Rapture - How I went from Pre-Trib to Post-Trib

The Timing of the Rapture - How I went from Pre-Trib to Post-Trib

*

Allow me to provide a few details about how I first learned about the Rapture and the Great Tribulation.

And how I came to understand or see the scriptures differently.

It all started back in 1976 when I was 16 years old.

I was a seeker - looking into all the "answers",

the hows and whys we are here on earth.

I checked out psychic powers 

( I had none ).

I looked into reincarnation 

( I could not regress to any past life ).

I had my astrological chart done for my exact place and time of birth.

Nothing clear there either. 

Also, I learned that the relative position of the Constellations in the SUN 

have moved a full month over the past 2,000 years.

I thought I was an Aries, but if you check the sun's position on April 2nd, 

you'll find it to be in Pisces.

What about Aliens?

The books and stories I read were not conclusive.

Some were pure fiction created to sell books.

I first "checked out" the bible near the end of 5th grade 

when I was given a copy of the New Testament ( with Psalms and Proverbs ).

They actually passed them out at the public elementary school I attended.

Something that today would likely be illegal in most parts of the United States of America.

I learned that Jesus told us to call no man "father".

Which confused me, since I was raised Catholic where the priests are always addressed as "father".

Somewhere along the way I learned many things I was taught were not from the bible, 

but only man made doctrines.

Then came 9th grade where I attended St. Thomas Aquinas high school.

The things they taught in the mandatory Religion class would cause most to become an atheist.

I settled into being an agnostic.

I knew there had to be something MORE than what I was hearing and seeing.

Everything changed ( for the better ) in the summer of 1976 ( just before 11th grade ),

when I was drawn to a guy talking to some kids in front of the local Mall.

That is the day I saw the gospel in Ephesians chapter 2 and verses 8 and 9,

"For by grace are you saved by faith;

and that not of yourself,

it is a gift of God,

not of works, that no man may boast".

After our talk, I went to the library and found a book with all the contractions in the bible.

Armed with that book, and my own long list of questions,

I went to the small group bible study the next two Sundays.

And not only were most of my questions answered, 

I learned about fulfilled bible prophecy,

and about scientific creationism.

So, two weeks after first hearing the good news - that Eternal Life was a gift,

and that God would make me His child if I believed in the name of Jesus

( Yeshua =  Yahweh [the Lord] is Salvation.   ),

I found it easy to trust Him for my eternal salvation. 

No longer having a fear of "perishing".

Also, as a separate decision, 

I decided to become a disciple.

To learn and follow Jesus.

Getting back to the subject at hand.

I was a member of this small and dedicated group of disciples for over 3 years.

And it was there I "learned" the most popular version of what to expect in the End Times.

My teacher passed on what was learned at Florida Bible College.

Many of the teachers at the College were trained at Dallas Theological Seminary.

And this school was started by Lewis Sperry Chafer and his older brother in the 1920s.

And while the theories were developed by others in the century before,

I would say that the students who studied at Dallas Theological Seminary have been very instrumental in propagating this theory.

Case in point:

In the 1970s everyone was reading "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey,

who also studied at Dallas Theological Seminary.

I'm not trying to knock this College.

When it comes to teaching a clear gospel doctrine, 

I can think of none better.

I'm only mentioning the fact that the End Time theories have been taught there,

and these theories need to be examined more closely in the light of scripture.

The "roots" of the teaching 

that the Rapture comes before the Great Tribulation 

goes back to around 1830,and John Nelson Darby. 

He came up with a dispensational way of looking at God's dealings with mankind,

and included a division of the last week ( or 7 years ) 

of Daniel's 70 weeks 

( 490 years ) prophecy.

This error is discussed in some of my other posts and videos.

The teaching was well received and promoted by others.

Large Prophecy Conferences were common in the 1800s and early 1900s.

A baptist pastor, by the name of Clarence Larkin published a book in 1918 that included hand drawn charts.

The book is titled "Dispensational Truth, or God's Plan and Purpose in the Ages".

And it's still in print, so I was sure to get my own copy.

My point is simply this:

The idea of a 7 year tribulation,

and a Rapture of believers at the beginning 

has been taught and retaught for approximately 190 years.

When I realized the "source" of the teaching and how it became popular,

I wanted to look more closely at the scriptures used to support this view of God's plans.

Working my way through many books that discussed all the relevant scriptures,

I started finding a DIFFERENT way of understanding these passages.

I was led to a book by George Eldon Ladd, titled,

"THE BLESSED HOPE,

A Biblical Study of the Second Advent and the Rapture."

He clearly and gently references all the KEY scriptures on the subject, 

and presents both the pre-trib view,

and the post-trib view of when the Rapture is to occur.

He frequently referenced one of the leading proponents of the pre-trib Rapture,

John F. Walvoord ( a long time President of Dallas Theological Seminary and author ),

and his book, "THE RAPTURE QUESTION".

I read BOTH books carefully.

And it was easy to see that the Rapture could not possibly be an event 

at the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

I've continued to study the issue.

Reading and re-reading the scriptures.

And I've read at least a half dozen different authors on both sides of the issue.

Over time I've only become MORE Convinced that the Church

( all born again believers who trust in Christ alone for their salvation ),

will still be on earth when the Great Tribulation starts. 

And I am currently working to educate, and warn the Church of this fact.

So many, 

for so long, 

have been given a false hope.

I suspected the Pre-trib Rapture theory was wrong, 

everytime I read Matthew chapter 24.

Especially versions 29-31,

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: 
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven
with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other.

I hope this will encourage you to dig deeper into the subject.

Try to read the scriptures for what they say, 

and forget how some preacher may have used ( misused ) the passage.

And I will continue to share insights into End Time topics such as:

The Rapture - When?

Who is Saved and how?

The Great Tribulation - 7 years or 3 1/2 years?

And the Wrath of God - 

what it is, 

when it is, 

and to whom does it apply?

I'll close with 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 1 - 3,

since it also clearly teaches the Rapture ( our gathering ),

comes AFTER after the antichrist is revealed.

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,
neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

--

Saved by Grace,

Andrew Cross

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 

And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, 

but exhorting one another, 

and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 10:23-25

YouTube channel = We belong to the Day

Two stages in the Christian life

Classic Quote on Rest and Activity

"There are [usually] two stages in the Christian life.  The one in which, after conversion, a believer seeks to work what God would have him do.  The second, in which, after many a painful failure, he ceases from his works, and enters the rest of God,  there to find the power for work in allowing the Father to work in him. "It is this rest from their own work which many Christians cannot understand.  They think of it as a state of passive and selfish enjoyment, of still contemplation which leads to the neglect of the duties of life,  and unfits for that watchfulness and warfare to which Scripture calls.  What an entire misunderstanding of God's call to rest! "Truly to rest in God is to yield oneself up to the highest activity.  We work, because He worketh in us both to will and to do (Phil. 2:13).  As Paul says of himself, 'I labor, striving according to his working who worketh in me with might' (Col. 1:29).  Entering the rest of God is the ceasing from self-effort,  and the yielding of oneself in the full surrender of faith to God's working."  - Andrew Murray

--

Saved by Grace,

Andrew Cross

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 

And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, 

but exhorting one another, 

and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 10:23-25

YouTube channel = We belong to the Day

Daniel 9:27 He Who?

You may have heard the antichrist will make a 7 year peace deal with Israel and break it after 3 1/2 years.

There is no place in the bible that says that.

The verse used to teach this is Daniel 9:27 

But if you take a close look at this verse, it does not say that at all.

And the actual meaning of the passage is highly debated.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:"

"He" = Who? The antichrist or the Messiah referenced in 9:25

"confirm" = may not mean "will make"

"the covenant" = about what? Nothing here about a "peace agreement" with Israel.

It could just as likely be confirming the covenant or promise made with Abraham

"with many" = who exactly is this "many"?

It does not say. 

And there are several different possibilities.

"and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,"

* This "he" could be the antichrist or more likely the Messiah.

--

Saved by Grace,

Andrew Cross

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 

And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, 

but exhorting one another, 

and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 10:23-25

YouTube channel = We belong to the Day

The Rapture - Meeting the Lord on His way down to Earth

The Rapture - Meeting the Lord on His way down to Earth

Jesus does not meet us on our way up to heaven,

but rather,

We meet Him on His way down to rule the earth.

In I Thessalonians chapter 4 and verses 16 - 17

we read:

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven 
with a cry of command,
with the voice of an archangel,
and with the sound of the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first. 

Then we who are alive,
who are left,
will be caught up together with them 
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air,
and so we will always be with the Lord. 

When we are "caught up",

it will be to "meet" the Lord.

It was a common practice
When an important person was coming to a city,

a group from that city would go out to "meet" him, 

to travel with him the rest of the way into town.

When the Rapture ( or getting caught up ) occurs,

Jesus does not meet us on our way up to heaven,

but rather,

We meet Him
on His way down
to rule the earth.

This return includes the voice of the archangel 
and the sound of the trumpet of God,

so this can not be a secret Rapture.

Instead, it is the time of Christ's physical return,

as Paul also mentions in this same letter,

see chapter 3 verse 13

so that he may establish your hearts
blameless in holiness
before our God and Father,
at the coming of our Lord Jesus 
with all his saints.

This coming as we know from Acts 1 and Zechariah 14
is when His descends on the Mount of Olives.

And John tells us
in Revelation chapter 1 verse 7,

Behold, he is coming with the clouds, 

and every eye will see him, 

even those who pierced him, 

and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. 

Even so. Amen.

Nowhere in scripture do we see the Lord
"descend from heaven"

and then reverse course
to go back up to heaven.

Although, that is what many have been saying
from their pulpits for the past 100 years or so.

Ignore what you may have heard,

and let the scripture speak for itself.

Note: the dead that rise first, 

are also in the air
( not heaven ),

when we meet.

So we ( those saved by faith ),

will always be with the Lord.

When He returns to earth,

we will be with Him on earth.

And those who are worthy,
will also reign with Him,

as promised.

AMEN!

***

Additional reference:

There are many examples of the word "descend" used in the New Testament,

and none imply just a "hovering" above.

Matthew 28:2

And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it.

Luke 9:54

And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?

John 1:32, 

 And John bore witness: "I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him.

1:51 

And he said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."

3:13,

No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

6:33, 

For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

38, 

For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

41,

So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."

50-51

This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven.
If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."

Acts 11:5

I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, something like a great sheet descending, being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to me.

Revelation 10:1-2

Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs like pillars of fire. 
2 He had a little scroll open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land, 

13:13

It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,

16:21

And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe.

20:9

And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,

21:2

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

YouTube video version = https://youtu.be/eRhGB8XQqiM

--

Saved by Grace,

Andrew Cross

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 

And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, 

but exhorting one another, 

and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Hebrews 10:23-25

YouTube channel = We belong to the Day