The Bible is clear that all men live once,
and most of us will one day die
to await a resurrection.
But are the dead "conscious" right NOW?
Or are they asleep
with no conscious thoughts or experiences,
until the "Last Day"?
You'll find theologians teaching on both sides of this issue.
We are going to look at the KEY verses on the topic,
and then I will share my thoughts
on how I reconcile the different passages.
You can draw your own conclusions.
First let's look at verses used to promote the idea
that souls are hanging out someplace
experiencing a conscious existants
awaiting the Last Day bodily resurrection.
1 Samuel 28:7-20 Tells that King Saul went to see the witch of Endor
so she could put him in touch with the deceased prophet Samuel
for some guidance from the Lord.
It is the only biblical account of a séance.
One must decide how to interpret this passage.
Did Samuel himself truly appear?
OR
Was this an illusion perpetrated by the witch?
OR
was it a demonic deception?
The passage states that Samuel came and spoke to Saul.
In 1st Samuel 28 verse 15
we read
"Samuel said to Saul,
'Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?'"
And what Samuel told him would happen the next day,
In verse 19 of the same passage
we read
The Lord will deliver both Israel
and you into the hands of the Philistines,
and tomorrow you
and your sons will be with me
The evidence that Samuel actually did appear seems strong.
Nothing is said in the passage to indicate anything different.
The witch ( or what we could call a medium ),
seems to be very shocked
and surprised that Samuel appeared,
and not a "familiar spirit" or demon
she might have been used to seeing.
It seems that God allowed Samuel to return
so Saul could hear what the Lord had planned for him.
And we see that the message was true
and came to place the next day.
I would point out that nothing is said about
where Samuel was exactly,
or if he we consciously existing,
or if he had merely been "awakened"
to share the Lord's message with Saul.
This passage does support the fact
that physical death is not the end of our existence.
In the Old Testament we see many passages about those who have died
as simply to be in the ground or in the grave.
No reference to a conscious existence.
David seems to have thought the dead
were not capable of doing anything,
as he references this in some of his psalms.
For example:
Psalms 115:17-18
The dead do not praise the LORD,
Nor any who go down into silence.
But we will bless the LORD
From this time forth and forevermore.
Praise the LORD!
Moving to the New Testament
we have the Luke 16:19-31
Here Jesus speaks of a Rich man that has died,
and a beggar named Lazurus who also has died,
and the two of them are in
two different places in Hades or Sheol.
The Rich man being in a place of torment,
and Lazurus being with Abraham
( often referred to as Abraham's bosom ).
A much better place to be.
A lot of people use this parable
to construct their beliefs about the afterlife.
And some would say it is not a parable
because proper names are used.
That is not a definitive argument.
I believe that Jesus is using an illustration
from what was the common belief of this time.
It was commonly taught and believe at this time in this part of the world,
that the afterlife was divided into compartments.
I believe that the point of the message
( dare I say parable ),
is seen in the concluding verses of the passage
where the Rich man is asking Abraham to send someone
back from the dead to warn his brothers.
verses 29 - 31
we read
Abraham said to him,
'They have Moses and the prophets;
let them hear them.'
And he said, 'No, father Abraham;
but if one goes to them from the dead,
they will repent.'
But he said to him,
'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded
though one rise from the dead.' "
I would say that Christ was using commonly held beliefs about the afterlife
to make the point that even after He was to come back from the dead,
that this would not be enough
to persuade those who were already
rejecting the truth
God had already been providing them.
And this Greek afterlife terminology is again referenced by Christ
when he told the believing thief on the cross next to him that
"today you will be with me in Paradise"
( from Luke 23:43 ).
Paul uses the term Paradise,
also calling it the third Heaven,
in reference to an experience he had.
This can be found in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4.
Read from verse 2
he says
"that man was snatched away to the third heaven"
and in verse 4
we read,
how he was caught up into Paradise
and heard inexpressible words,
which it is not lawful for a man to utter
No details about what
or who
he saw in this place,
so it does not address the question of
whether the dead are conscious or unconscious,
or where our actual "souls" exist
prior to the resurrection of the dead.
Perhaps the most commonly quoted passage about the afterlife
would what Paul tells says in 2 Corinthians 5:1-8,
Concluding in verse 8,
he states,
to be absent from the body
and to be present with the Lord.
Seems pretty clear.
I leave my earthly tent ( body ),
I will then be present with the Lord.
The point of the passage is
that we have a new body waiting for us.
In Verse 1
we read
For we know that if our earthly house,
this tent, is destroyed,
we have a building from God,
a house not made with hands,
eternal in the heavens
Paul had already made it clear
in his previous letter to them,
that this incorruptible body
is something the dead get
when Jesus returns.
Not at the moment of physical death.
Please review
1st Corinthians chapter 15.
With the Key passage being,
Verse 51 and 52
we read
Behold, I tell you a mystery:
We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed—
in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.
Another misunderstood passage is
Matthew 12:40
we read
For as Jonah was three days and three nights
in the belly of the great fish,
so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights
in the heart of the earth.
Some try to say that the phrase
"in the heart of the earth"
does not mean buried in a grave or tomb.
Those who support this theory say
that heart implies "middle of" or "midst of,"
and earth should really be translated as "country" or "world." Thus, the argument runs,
Jesus is actually saying that He would be
three days and nights in Jerusalem,
since it was the center of the nations according to Ezekiel 5:5:
"This is Jerusalem; I have set her in the midst of the nations and the countries all around her."
Supporters do not say how Jesus' being in Jerusalem for this amount of time can act as a sign of His Messiahship.
However, this argument holds no water.
First, the Greek is literally translated here,
as it is from a Hebrew idiom found in Jonah 2:2-3,
the place to which Jesus referred in giving His sign.
In that place, "heart of the sea"
parallels "into the deep,"
which Jonah in the previous verse
calls "the belly of Sheol,"
which is the pit where the dead are laid
or the grave.
So, heart of the earth means
"underground," just as heart of the seas
means "underwater."
"In the heart of the earth," then,
was a Hebrew metaphor signifying
being dead and buried.
What I believe is -
When we die,
that our soul is separated from our physical bodies,
and that we are unconscious
Asleep
And the next conscious thought or experience will be
when the trumpet sounds
and we are raised incorruptible.
We will be absent from our earthly body,
and the next MOMENT
( in our experience of TIME ),
we will be present with the Lord,
having just been given our new incorruptible bodies.
Those not part of the First Resurrection,
Reference in Revelation 20:4-6
will not be conscience
until the Great White Throne Judgement
mentioned in Revelation chapter 20:12-15.
Looking at verses 14 and 15,
we read
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life
was cast into the lake of fire.
There are other passages that support this idea,
that the dead are not conscious,
and not currently experiencing anything.
From the Old Testament
we have this passage in Daniel chapter 12.
Verses 2
we read,
And many of those who sleep
in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
And in the New Testament,
Jesus tells us in John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me,
that everyone who sees the Son
and believes in Him may have everlasting life;
and I will raise him up
at the last day."
Now how does this FIT with
what we read in Revelation chapter 6,
when the 5th Seal is opened.
It is clear the "souls" are resting and are told to rest a while longer,
But also they seem to be "complaining" about the long wait?
In Revelation chapter 6 verses 9 - 11
we read
When He opened the fifth seal,
I saw under the altar the souls of those
who had been slain for the word of God
and for the testimony which they held.
And they cried with a loud voice, saying,
"How long, O Lord, holy and true,
until You judge and avenge our blood
on those who dwell on the earth?"
Then a white robe was given to each of them;
and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer,
until both the number of their fellow servants
and their brethren,
who would be killed as they were,
was completed.
Interesting passage.
"Souls under the altar",
and specifically
those "who had been slain for the word of God".
Were they slain during the time of the first 4 seals
( the 4 horsemen ),
or would it reference those killed
at any time throughout history?
And what exactly does it mean to "REST"?
Is this symbolic or literal?
Because of the wide use of symbolism in Revelation,
there is much specticulation on this
and other passages found in the last book of the Bible.
I don't think this proves the dead are conscious,
but I can understand how this passage could be interpreted that way.
The key to understanding the way
our meeting with the Lord
could be expressed as something
we should expect immediately,
and yet could still be something
that does not occur
until a predetermined future time
is the concept of a 4th dimension.
I believe that TIME as we know it
does not apply to God,
and eternal matters.
I believe scripture is clear that God exists outside of Time.
Or perhaps can see and experience all events
beyond our linear ( moment by moment ) experience.
He is the great I am.
He is the alpha and the omega.
The beginning and the end.
And He has the ability to hear every thought,
and every prayer that Billions of people on this planet are having.
Time is not a constraint for our God.
He can spend "all His time" with each one of us,
because He is not limited
by time and space the way we are.
Peter made similar point in
2 Peter 3:8
we read
But, beloved,
do not forget this one thing,
that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years,
and a thousand years as one day.
I did not think it matters much
if you believe the afterlife
is going to be a time of consciously waiting,
or an instantaneous meeting the Lord,
as long as you have
put your faith and trust
in Jesus Christ
to be your Saviour.
That is the deciding factor as to
what you have to expect in the afterlife.
John the Baptist made this clear
in John chapter 3 and verse 36,
we read
He who believes in the Son
has everlasting life;
and he who does not believe the Son
shall not see life,
but the wrath of God
abides on him."
And I'd like to close with this passage
from 1st Thessalonians 5:9-11
For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation
through our Lord Jesus Christ,
who died for us,
that whether we wake
or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
Therefore comfort each other
and edify one another,
just as you also are doing.
Till next time,
Maranatha
Saved by Grace,
Andrew Cross
"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some,
but exhorting one another,
and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.Hebrews 10:23-25
